© 2002 Rich Martin
Permission to repost in full, or in part, is granted.
In other words, please forward to a friend or list.
If you received this from a friend, SlickMisc can
be found on SlickMisc. For a free subscription, -
send email to join-SlickMisc@lists.spunge.org
If the Waco Massacre sounds like it is too old to worry about, listen up! The fedl govt is still holding prisoner several Davidians. These prisoners were found not guilty for the reason of self-defense. They were found "guilty" by the jury for using weapons. The court found them guilty of using these weapons in the commission of a crime, enhancing their punsihment to 20 yrs. The problem is: THEY WERE FOUND INNOCENT OF THE CRIME!
It was self defense you F***heads.
Darby Convey Route
http://www.sawgrassrebellion.org/caravan.html
Dale Rapp
Phone (740)857-1675
E-mail dalerappii@msn.com
Rich Martin
Editor, Slick eZine
http://slickplus.spunge.org/list/
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
From: Carl F. Worden
Hi Mark:
Please note the address change.
InternetCDS delayed your reply until today. They are apparently concerned about my intentions to file a federal lawsuit against them for violating my right to free speech. Real idiots.
You will find what I have to tell you interesting, because it took me by surprise as well.
Back when the FBI murdered Sammy and Vickie Weaver at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, and then followed up by barbecuing the entire church congregation at Waco Texas, a significant number of Americans still cognizant of their American heritage went into action.
Prior to those two incidents, the federal government had done some things that were questionable (like Viet Nam) but when they openly murdered their own American citizens in those two incidents, and then covered it all up to the point they defied any citizen or court to do anything about it, the American Militia Movement sprang into being. The fact that any Americans
were willing to jump off their couch and form into armed Militia groups ready to oppose the next citizen slaughter took the government by complete surprise, and it scared them. It should have.
I remember back in 1993 when I first understood what happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco. It wasn't anything close to the ideal I knew America was supposed to be. I was also shocked by the fact the Los Angeles Police Department had refused to go into certain hot areas of South Central LA for reasons of personal safety during the Rodney King riots, knowing that innocent citizens
were being attacked and murdered. I also remember how the Mayor of LA ordered that no ammunition be sold -- even to people having to defend themselves because the police wouldn't be there for them. In every way possible, the people's government had betrayed them, and it was up to the citizens to defend themselves. That is exactly what led to the American Militia Movement.
I remember calling my friend Ralph and telling him I was deeply concerned about this turn of events, and that it was time to reform citizen Militia units long since abandoned due to lack of threat. We called a few of our close friends together, discussed the matter, and agreed it was indeed time. The federal government of the United States had violated the Constitution of
the United States, and they had gotten so far out of control they were now murdering American citizens, defying constitutional authority, and covering it up.
Up to that point, we Americans had a certain earned faith in our government. We knew and accepted that certain individuals would be employed by the government who would commit crimes and other misdeeds against the citizens, but we also knew that when our government discovered it, they would clean it up by prosecuting the offender and make reparations to the injured. With
the advent of Ruby Ridge and Waco, and the cover-up that followed, every scintilla of that former faith in our government dissolved overnight. To this date, not one federal agent has been properly prosecuted for those murders, and no matter how much time passes by, those wounds and grievances will not be healed. Not in our hearts, anyway.
I suppose what separates the people who joined the Militia back then from those who could have cared less, was empathy. Unlike so many of our fellow self-centered, self absorbed American citizens, we empathized with those who were murdered at Ruby Ridge and Waco, especially after we learned the truth of what had actually transpired in those two instances. That kind of
empathy comes from a religious background, which is why just about everyone involved in the Militia Movement holds deeply Christian religious convictions.
Yes, we do have a strong relationship with other true, constitutional Militia groups nationwide, but we all understand that our responsibility is to our immediate region. The true constitutional Militia groups do not fraternize with the various racist and anti-Semitic groups festering here and there, and we in fact oppose them.
Anyway, it came as a surprise to learn that at the same time we were forming our Militia here in Southern Oregon in 1993, Militias were springing up all over the United States at the exact same time and for the exact same reasons. Something external caused that. We were quite happy living our lives and doing our daily things without these additional burdens. But when
the federal government began murdering American citizens and covering it all up, they crossed a line that seared the consciousness of every good and decent American left out there, who now emphatically state, "You shall not do it ever again without your own blood being spilled", and they know that
is exactly what we will do.
Take care. Carl F. Worden
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Shibley"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: An Interview?
> Dear Carl:
>
> Thank you for your help and interest in my research. I know very
> little about the American Militia movement, but I suspected it was not
> synonymous with Christian Identity, which your response clarified. I
> know enough to be skeptical of news media characterizations of people
> they don't understand. The first rule of good sociological fieldwork is
> to let the people you are trying to understand tell you who they are and
> then respect what they've told you.
>
> Perhaps you could suggest some sources (print or Web-based) that would
> give me a deeper understanding of the history and goals of the Militia
> movement, both nationwide and here in our region. I'm particularly
> interested militia activity in southern Oregon and northern California.
>
> How long have you been involved with the Southern Oregon Militia, and
> how did you become involved? You seem to have a prominent role in that
> organization, so I'm wondering if you have been involved with the
> movement at a national level as well (i.e., traveling to conferences,
> etc.).
>
> Thanks again for your time and willingness to correspond. I hope we
> can keep this up for a time.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> Mark A. Shibley
> Department of Sociology and Anthropology
> Southern Oregon University
>
> 1250 Siskiyou Blvd.
> Ashland, OR 97520
> (541) 552-6761
> shibleym@sou.edu
>
> >>> "Carl F. Worden" 09/06/02 06:06PM >>>
> Hi Mark!
>
> Sure, I'd be glad to help.
>
> Certainly, mainstream Christianity is the primary
> religious affiliation the vast majority of men and
> women adhere to who make up the American Militia
> movement. However, also raising its butt-ugly head is
> something called "Christian Identity", which is
> anything BUT Christian and the people embracing it
> don't know jack about their identity.
>
> CI believers insist they are descendants of the lost
> tribes of Israel, and are therefore God's
> true "Chosen". They believe the Chosen are all lily-
> white, Anglo-Saxon and Germanic and they insist Jews
> are not descended of the biblical Israel, but are the
> spawn of Satan himself. People of color and especially
> whites who marry people of color don't have a place in
> Heaven, according to the CI freaks.
>
> When it gets right down to it, CI is a religion created
> to justify racism and anti-Semitism. It is an ugly
> religion and the people who adhere to it are some of
> the most evil and hateful people you will ever
> encounter, particularly if you question their belief
> system with hard, indisputable facts.
>
> The Southern Poverty Law Center and the ADL did the
> public a terrible disservice by classifying all these
> various CI groups as "Militias". In truth, they are
> skin-head/Aryan Nations/Neo-Nazi freaks, and the only
> thing a true citizen's militia will probably ever have
> in common with them will be a gunfight. One cannot
> support and defend the Constitution of the United
> States, and at the same time embrace racist or anti-
> Semitic sentiments. The two belief systems are in
> enmity with one another.
>
> Nevertheless, CI is making tremendous strides among the
> disaffected in society who are looking for a scapegoat,
> and their numbers are growing alarmingly.
>
> Further, CI adherents are quite literally the most
> dangerous people we have living among us here in
> America. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were CI.
> The members of the so-called "Order" who murdered Alan
> Berg, the Jewish radio talk show host in Denver, were
> CI. That freak Buford Furrow, who attacked the Jewish
> Community Center in Los Angeles and then walked outside
> and killed a postal worker for no better reason than he
> wasn't white? Yep, he was CI too.
>
> So the first challenge you'll face in this research is
> to determine if the people you are interviewing are
> actually true militia members or CI freaks labeled a
> militia by that con man Morris Dees of the SPLC.
>
> I hope this information has been helpful. You can
> reach me directly at 826-6528 (541)if you have further
> questions I can help you with.
>
> Have a great day. Carl F. Worden
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Mark Shibley :
>
> > Mr. Worden:
> >
> > I'm a sociologist at Southern Oregon University,
> > and I'm doing research
> > on social movements in the Pacific Northwest
> > that have religious or
> > spiritual dimensions. I don't know much about
> > the Militia movement and
> > therefore was hoping we could speak so that I
> > could ask you some
> > questions about the religious/spiritual
> > dimensions of the movement as
> > you understand them. I know I won't get an
> > accurate picture through new
> > media accounts of the Southern Oregon Militia.
> >
> > I'd appreciate your time and insight.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Mark Shibley
> > Dept of Sociology
> > SOU
> > shibleym@sou.edu
> >
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------
Changed your e-mail? Keep your contacts! Use this free e-mail change of address service from Return Path. Register now!
To comment or read what others are saying about the content of this list, send email to Majordomo@lists.spunge.org
with the following command in the BODY of your email
message: subscribe Slick-R
-\-
- To join/quit this list,
send a blank email to
join-SlickMisc@lists.spunge.org
leave-SlickMisc@lists.spunge.org